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郁金香JJ。同情你们的遭遇。前几天一直很忙。我刚才班门弄斧试着把封信改短了点儿,希望对你们有帮助.GOOD LUCK...

本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛To Whom it May Concern:

We have never been so shocked, appalled and dismayed in our lives at the treatment we have been given by one of your Esso stations at st.# st.name in Toronto.

On Nov 4, 2002, at about 6:30pm my wife and I purchased 37.8 litres of regular gas (#87) at NAME OF STATION. As a regular customer of that station, we make the payment through the machine by credit card. However, this time we were asked to come inside and to pay another $11 bill for #91 gas that was unpaid by a customer a couple of minutes before us. Beyond this, the manager Sam Kotani and one of his clerks insisted that they saw that I AM the one who left without paying, which means I stole the gas! But he has no evidence for that. I refuse to pay. To resolve the dispute, we called the police. The police offers suggested that, 1) to finish the business quickly, I pay the $11; 2) on the next day (Nov 5, 2002) the gas station arrange a third party to check the gas from my tank to see if there is any evidence that I filled the premium gas. So I paid the $11 bill but heard nothing from Sam Kotani the next day.

On Nov 5, 2002, I went to the station again. But Mr. Sam Kotani refused to show up after I waited for ?? minutes. The police officer who handled the case on Nov 4 later came to the station. When the officer asked the clerk whether he could swear to god that he had seen me stealing the gas, the clerk said no, which is opposite to his answer on Nov 4. Even in this situation, the gas station refused to make any apology to me and refund the $11.

The impact of the unresolved gas issue has been tremendous on us and the community I live in. A large amount of time has been spent on it and my wife and I have been feeling cheated and unfairly treated. We are not gas thief therefore we deserve a formal apology and further compensation. My colleagues and my friends are also shocked. They are being extremely supportive to us and are ready to show further support if we need.

We have been a loyal ESSO customer for ?? years/months and obviously know that this is not a normal circumstance. I am attaching 5 copies of Esso receipts in the past couple months, and you would notice my pattern of filling about 35 litres regular gas to my tank every week.

In conclusion, I request 1) that Esso company look into this matter and help resolve the dispute; 2) that we be refunded $11 we spent on other’s gas; and 3) a formal written apology from the gas station and …

We can be reached by….

Phone: 416-494-9636 (H),
Email: hardywang@yahoo.com更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
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Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 枫下茶话 / 法律 / 极度气愤!一次不得不说的经历,发生在加油站,紧急寻求大家出谋划策……!
    本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛事情的全部经过是这样的:
    每个星期一我们都在固定的邮站加油(Keele & Finch东北角的Esso),今天加油的时候却发生了意想不到的事情,当我们如往常一样加完油等待付款时,油站的老板要求我们多付11块钱,说是我们在一分钟内前后两次进入同一油泵位加了两次油,第一次是最高标号的汽油(就是那莫名奇妙的11块钱),第二次是我们自己正常加的87号油。事实上,我们只加了一次,在我们之前有一辆车加了油没有付钱溜走了,油站的人不知道是真的没看见,还是来不及阻止又不愿意自己承担损失,由于我们到达时间巧合,于是硬诬陷是我们加了油还不想付钱。我们当然据理力争,可油站方面坚持要我们必须付款,在双方争执不下的情况下,我们要求警察来处理问题。油站给警察局打了电话简单说了情况(很不利于我们的陈述),等待约半小时后,警察来到了现场,双方各自对警察解释了争执的问题,油站老板始终强调他的伙计看见是我们的车先加了油未付款离开,然后立刻再回来加油,坚持说我们妄图少交油费,我们虽然一再陈述我们不可能,也根本没有做过这样的事情,事实上,我们还说出了在我们之前看到的那辆车的颜色(当时我们预备倒车进入油泵位,没有注意究竟是什么车在位置上),但最后警察的判决很让我失望,警察要求我们首先付那11块给油站,然后,由油站负责安排检测我们油箱里是否有高标号汽油存在,如果有,则我们承担一切责任和后果,如果没有,油站退我们11块并承担一切检查费用。
    目前担心的是,因为不是警方直接检查取证,而是油站方安排这一过程,如果油站老板从中捣鬼,我们很难取得合理有力的证据,在这种情况下,我们该怎么做才能保护自己合法的权益呢?更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 帮你UP一下,真希望有朋友帮助你。
      • 我每次都用信用卡付款,大多数是在加油机上自己付款,有一次,一个卡车司机加了 油,没给钱就溜了,油站的人挡住我,我把发票给他看,他脸都绿了,哈哈,白白 损失50多元。
        • 我们也是用用信用卡付钱,当时我们正在等付款的单据出来,我爱人就听到油站里面的人叫他进去,他以为打单据的设备坏了出不了单据叫他呢,就进去了,没想到油站于是就一口咬定是我们加了两次油,无论怎么说也说不清。
    • 找个律师。直接上小额法庭。相信你们一定能打赢并要求对方赔偿更多。
      • 关于律师、法庭等等,我们目前一无所知,只能淌这石头过河,走一步看一步,但公道是一定要讨得。
    • 这边是无罪假设, 油站得拿出证据证明你是坏蛋, otherwise by default你就是好蛋, 你不用证明你是好蛋. 油站每个pump都有摄像头监视的吧, 让他们查一查带子
      • 这种付钱的油站没CAMERA吧?
      • 恐怕没有:-(
    • Obviously, I don't have any hard proof to talk you out of your concerns
      but if I were you, I would rather believe them. The reason is that if they dare to fake the evidence, they are taking a huge risk that you are going to sue them. By that time, I am sure others would be doing the analysis on your gas tank instead of them. Anyhow, it's just 11 bucks. I would rather think that they really thought you were the guy who were suppose to pay the money and they were not interested in prove you "stole" the fuel but get the money back.
    • 不会是阿差的油站吧
      你有没有质问人民警察,判你付11刀就是假设你偷了油,证据呢?有什么证据能证明11刀的油在你油箱里?
    • 当时不应该付钱,也不应该同意由油站验油。:( 很不理解加拿大警察的做法,在没有搞明真相之前,凭什么让你们付钱???凭什么让当事人自己做油样检验?
      • 我们不知道在加拿大,如果警察明确告诉你必须做什么时候,你是否可以拒绝,
        当时我们知道自己绝对不应该付那笔钱,可是既然警察那么说,我们认为没有选择的余地,不知道是不是我们太过信任警察的权威性了,或许这一点上我们犯了一个大错误。
        • 你可以拒绝付款.
    • 应该是谁主张,谁举证啊。当时就应该拒绝付钱。(不知警察有权利做判决吗?)
      • 这也是我目前非常想知道的
    • 油站要是不检查你不就完了, 你应该定日期并要求补偿, 如果结果你没有加两次.
      • 油站当着警察的面说今天一定安排检查,但我们等了一天,毫无消息。我们知道油站一定想拖延时间,所以我们今天下班后会去登门拜访油站,看看他还想怎样抵赖和拖延。
    • 你加了多少油?如果加上那11块的油,超过了你油箱的总容量,他们还怎么说?
    • 技术上讲,如果没有油站员工配合,无法加两次油。前面的人走了没交钱的话,后面一个应该无法加油,除非你跟他打招呼:喂,我还要加!他给你两个单子。你从这些技术细节找找办法。祝好运。
      是否可能前面那个人已经交了钱(自动划卡),鬼子一时疏忽,又重收一遍?别急,多想几种可能。
      • 不可能,我们是刷卡付钱,油站以为我们加完油要走,所以叫我们进油站店面,然后互相争执不下,我们要求叫警察的,结果还是如此不合理!
      • 就是就是!esso的油枪拿起来后里面的cashier必须确认你才能加油,无论是在外面刷卡还是你在里面付账。
        如果你的前面的人,加油没给钱就跑了,除非是里面的人错误的在收钱的时候再次激活油泵,否则应该是没有办法在没收那个油泵的钱而让你加油的!具体的操作流程我早忘记了,反正是支持你啦!
        • 看了大家从技术上的分析,我更加觉得油站根本就是有意陷害我们,所以无论如何也不能就这么算了。
          • 很是抱歉,我只是一年前在esso做过几周,很多的东西记不住了,我会找我的朋友,他在esso做的时间比较久
    • 记不记得该警察的 警号? 直接打电话911 告他种族歧视(racial profiling)
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛首先是对于间接证据(单个伙计证词)的采信度的问题。如果你车上有两个人,而他的伙计是一个人,可以直接告他种族歧视:对证词价值判断 - 对一个巴基斯坦人的话判定可信程度大于两个中国人。 这是可以停他的值的,他的判定自然作废,不过你可能要不回来11块钱。

      其次,销毁证据,在民事纠纷中,简单说,你主张什么,你就有义务采取相应的证据。他要求你把车交给油站检测,直接剥夺了你的采证权,属于侵犯你的法律权利。而且销毁了你进一步取证的可能 - 油站已经可以在你的油里做手脚。这也够停值的

      第三,缺乏判断力,一你所说,只有傻瓜才会回来加第二次油。如果我可以走,我为什么回来?简单的逻辑判断力都没有,也可以停值反省了。

      最近,Toronto警察的Racial profiling闹得很凶,你只要咬定它racial profiling(依你所说,他却是属于种族歧视)最近很容易赢得同情。


      另外,你加了多少钱的油?如果你是fiil-up,你的bill是20$,你都不用打官司,“我的油箱,装不下另外11$的油”


      你的失误:
      1,报警要你报,而不是让加油站报。恶人先告状,吃亏的还是你。因为911的工作方式是:接电话的只管纪录,然后分派到执勤警察手上,让他打电话,911的记录里全是他的描述。这是中国人经常吃亏的地方。千万不要等他打电话诬陷你。应该把握主动,让911记录中尽量反映实事。

      2,不应该描述前面的车辆。最多只是说有一辆车在我前面开出去了,我不知道是不是他加了油没有付钱。这是你和加油站值之间的事,你说前面的车,只能侧面赞同油站说丢了11$。等于帮他证明了一半(剩下的一半:只不过你说不是你,他说是你)

      3,应该强调逻辑,而不是“never”never 不是一个好的辩解,只能使你的表白显得苍白无力。你应该直接问警察:“If I pumped and ran, and these guys can not catch me, why should I come back? Why I did not fill my tank and ran away? If I want to change ocane, why I should drive out and back in again? why I don't press a botton and change to 87?”
      In fact if he can not answer your question at the first time, you should then call 911 immediately.更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
      • good ideas, very good.
      • That is great. very helpful. Thanks buddy.
      • 很有道理,如果他当时说了这些的话,就肯定不会有问题了。这警察不是有种族歧视就是个弱智,哪儿有偷着加完油又跑回来的,而且还换油加!?
        • 警察对我们说他相信我们说的是真的,但因为没有直接有力的证据,他也无能为力。
          • 难道他有你们说谎的“直接有力的证据”吗?为什么不能判定先不付11块钱,如果查出来确实你们撒谎再补呢?这个警察真不配有这份工作。
      • 太棒了!!!!估计事主当时着急上火口齿混沌云彩乐,不过事后以这种雄辩的逻辑,把油站和那个警察连带诉讼,让他们吃不了兜着走!太可恨了,总是欺负中国人!
      • 非常感谢“路虎”大侠的细致解释,非常有帮助!事实上,我们打算花钱买教训了,明天去找律师,看看专业人士怎么说。
        • 别忘了争取高昂各种损失费!不为了钱,但一定要让他们骨头里记住!
          • 这正是我们想做的!但是我们目前急需一些法律方面的帮助,谁能告诉我们哪里可以得到这样的帮助呢?
            不是不舍得花钱找律师,只是找律师需要时间,我们想尽可能弥补已经错失的有利因素,尽可能及时的得到必要的法律建议以保护自己。
    • Keele & Finch?我不敢去那里!你在错误的地点,做了一个错误的选择。 这警察怎么可以假定你没有付钱呢?同情你!
      • 我们基本每星期都在这个加油站加油,因为距离爱人上班的地方很近并且顺路。
    • 可不可以这样,你当时把事实的经过写下来,如在某天某时某油站(具体名字)他的伙计(具体名字)看到你两次加油,只付一次的钱,所以叫你付另外十一块钱,然后让OWER 签名。
      你告诉他,必须在签名后,你才同意付钱。如果他拒绝签名,你就问他:你如果不是在说谎,为什么不敢签名?如果他签了,马上报警,有了这张纸,带着警察到其他的油站验油。有那张纸做他对你诬陷的记录,有警察做你的清白证人。你就比较有利。
      • 这样的话人家也会要求你签名的。
        • 无所谓的呀,两个人同时签名,你一张来我一张,因为他自己明白自己是清白的,而且事实上他也是清白的,所以就不怕。而且手里有这张纸,到其他的加油站验油,其他的加油站员工和老板可以做证人,就牵制
          了警察,警察就不敢随意作出具有主观倾向的判决,如果他做了,记下警号,有纸片做物证,有加油站员工做人证,告他胡乱执法,种族歧视。
          • 自己明白没有用,如果tulipa在这样说法的纸上签名,意思就是认可这个说法啊。就好比撞车之后的事故描述一样。
            • 这是一个很好的提议。应该在纸上写明我并不认可他的说法,再签字
        • He is submitting a great idea!!!
      • 当时我们认为警察来了事情就会有个公正的解决,然而没有,后来因为太生气,根本没想到取证等等的事情。正所谓当局者迷呀……
    • 路虎说的很在理,留做生活参考
    • A:你的车的油箱有多大?B:你加的油是多少升?(可从数据中推算出) C:11刀高标号的油是多少升? 如果B+C>A, 当场就可以清楚。或者,法庭见!
      • 很不幸,两者相加的和小于我们油箱的体积,所以我们不得不依靠技术鉴定的结果,但这个取样工作的可靠性很值得疑问……
        • 就是,要是你上次碰巧加了92#没用完呢?都有可能。这个鉴定不做也罢。
          • 我们从未加过非87标号的油,当然如果说我们加油时前面一辆车加的是高标号汽油,那油管路里面会有残余,那就不是我们能够干涉得了的了。
    • call esso's customer support. tell them you are very upset
    • 都说不到点上
      那么多人吵吵嚷嚷,我认为都没说到点上。客观的讲,我们这些看客不在现场没有第一手资料,就必须运用假设。假设事主无辜,那油站就是在骚扰,不用管他是有心还是无意他都无权滞留你或多CHARGE你钱,经过简单交涉后你应该交实际油资,然后走人,如果油站滞留你应该你打电话报警,而不是自愿留在那等人家找警察。如果油站真的认为是你的问题他会报警,那时在由警方处理。
      • 同意. 发生这种情况, 如果不是你, 你可以拒绝付款(多余的部分), 找OWNER, 或者留下你的电话给他们. 如果他们认为是你, THE BURDEN OF PROOF在他们, 而不在你. 现在你应该COMPLAIN: 油站, 石油公司, 警察. 更简单的办法:
        把他们油站的电话贴在这里, 大家可以打电话过去, 表示不满, 要求退款并道歉(或者你想要的解决方案), 并告诉他们如果不解决的话...后面自己想吧, 比如, 十几, 二十辆车停在油站抗议...BOYCOTT之类的...

        如何?

        先弄清楚你想达到什么目的(金钱, 名誉, 等等), 再想如何实现之.

        请律师还为时过早. 这是件CONSUMER DISPUTE.
        • 不同意. 首先, 留下电话然后走人就更说不清了. (保护现场是很重要的). 还有"把他们油站的电话贴在这里, 大家可以打电话过去", TOO NAIVE! 这样做会有啥效果吗?
          • 想打赌吗? 如果有20个电话, 找OWNER, 说这事, 保证一天内有结果. "现场", 你以为他走了后他们真的会为11元钱调查取证? 如果他们真要追讨这11元钱, 证明是tulipa干的的责任在他们身上.
            • 可能吧. 唉, 只觉得以前的教育根本都没教我们怎么保护自己, 尽讲了写大道理. 所以很多人碰到些事情都不知道怎么办. 其实这和哪个国家无关, 因为哪里都回有这些事发生. 但从小到大根本没有人教过我们. 所以中国人往往吃亏,
              因为我们不知道怎么保护自己. 一个不知道保护自己的群体, 必然会受到更多的委屈, 因为人家根本不怕你. 唉......
              • 其实是因为我们在国内时被政府和警察--所谓有权有势的人欺负惯了(也包括我们用同样的手段欺负别人). 在这里保护自己的权益的责任在自己身上, 也有相应的法律法规. 对付商家最好的办法是让他们看到如果做法不当,利益有可能受损.
              • 这就是这一次我们打算据理力争的原因!我们宁可赔上更多的钱去讨回公道。虽然把这件事说成是我们整个民族的弱点或者悲哀有些过分,但至少
                希望通过这件事,大家都多知道一些保护自己的必要方法,免得处处被动受欺。
                • Support and Thanks!
                • "我们宁可赔上更多的钱去讨回公道。" stupid idea, be reality!
                  esso is a large company, they will care more their reputation than you, if you sue them, you won't lost any money, good luck.
                • support
                • 如果我是你的话, 吸取教训, 以后你认为自己对, 就不要让任何人INTIMIDATE YOU, 包括警察. 如果你觉得气不过, 参照#837970. 至于打官司, 获取"赔偿", 基本上不现实. (1. "赔偿"没多少 2. 花费太多精力). 个人以为.
                  • 如果我们不打这场官司,当然可以省心省气,也可以吸收一定的教训,但在发生类似的事情或者其他有关法律的事情是,我们还是茫然不知所措。因为用法律保护自己这件对本地人很轻松的事情对我们来说太玄妙了。
                    所以即便还要损失金钱,我们也认了,毕竟人人都知道经验是要代价的。
                    • 是啊. 真的有同感. 大多数数人都不知道怎么来保护自己. 只觉得中国人在这方面的知识等于0. 也许是因为我们来自一个非法制的国家吧.
                • yes, that is the point.
                • exactly!
            • 谢谢饺子的提议!店主姓名:Sam Kotani, 416-633-4133。 事发时间昨天下午17:16开始到大约18:30离开。
              两个警察的警号没有索要,只记得一个是亚裔人面孔,一个是黑人面孔。各自都不高,亚裔人似乎是头头,黑人很少说话。亚裔人后来跟我爱人说他其实我们的,但我不理解他为什么还是让我们付钱给油站。
              • police patrol plate number? Go to the store, demand the result, park between two pumps one hour per day until you get money back.
        • 很感谢你的提议!我们只想要公正……
          11块钱肯定不是主要的,最不可忍受的是油站老板一口咬定我们妄图偷他的油,也就是说他污辱了我们的人格,所以尊严是最重要的。
          • 写一篇言辞坚定的信, 包括三部分:1. 事情经过 2. 你的要求(赔偿, 道歉, WHATEVER) 和解决期限 3. 如果做不到, 你的下一步行动. CC给石油公司, BBB...个人认为这是你现在可以做的. 如果你愿意的话, 可以贴在这里, 大家帮你改改
            • 好!好的建议是成功之母。
            • 目前,接受一些网友的建议,我们已经给多伦多星报发了信,并且我爱人的同事知道事情的经过后也都很气愤,主动提出来联名写信给星报,目前正在修改中
          • get police badge, phone number, ask them follow up the result.
            • 我觉得警察的做法没有太多漏洞. 当时警察的角色是MEDIATOR, 提出的建议也不算不合理. 当事人如果拒绝的话, 留下自己的电话, 表明如果调查结果是他的问题, 他就回来付款并承担后果, 警察也不可能强令他付款.
              "警察要求我们首先付那11块给油站,然后,由油站负责安排检测我们油箱里是否有高标号汽油存在,如果有,则我们承担一切责任和后果,如果没有,油站退我们11块并承担一切检查费用。"
              • well, since money paid, get police help to close the case.
                • ic, got your point
              • 现在已经知道你的观点了. 不过觉得很笼统, 能不能说得具体点. 如, 首先, 你坚持不付钱, 然后怎么办? 走? 如果加油站不让走怎么半? 报警? 如果警察有漏洞, 让你付钱, 你怎么办? 什么叫留下电话? 那车怎么办? 撂加油站?
                开走(那怎么取证怎么做)?
                • well...
                  I think you made a mistake, that was not my charge.

                  xxxx you have to pay....

                  Listen, this is my name, phone number, if you like, this is my liscense plate. Do your investigation and if you prove it is us, you can contact us and we will accept the full responsibility.

                  xxxx you cannot go...:

                  You don't have a right to retain me and my vehicle...

                  xxxx call police....

                  Thank you, sir. I have told you that it is not my charge and I am not going to pay it. If you insist, I would like you to put down in writing that I was forced to pay the $11 charge. Would you please give me your name, number....?

                  ........

                  Remember the burden of proof is on the gas station. They have to show enough evidence that you stole the gas, otherwise they cannot make it up.

                  the result? 通常是不了了之了.

                  警察是ENFORCEMENT, 执法, 不是JUDGE, 他们只能提供证据, 不能给出判决.

                  ....
                  • Thanks.
                  • 警察让他们付了11刀
                    警察已经做出判断了
                    • 那是建议, 不是裁判
                    • 不!警察当时的口气不是建议?他的用词是“must”,尽管我的英语不够好,但我不可能把must理解为建议,我们当时问警察为什么我们要付那笔钱,警察说我们必须先付掉,然后再来检查究竟是谁的责任。
                      • #838120
                        • 饺子,我必须跟你强调一下,我们昨天遭遇的情况是——警察用强制性的口气告诉我们must付款,根本不是建议性的。我们当时只感觉很委屈和别无选择。
                          也许你来得久阅历丰富,但并不是所有的人和事都绝对相似,至少我们很不幸遇上了诡计多端的店主和莫名其妙的警察。
                          • 我理解你的FRUSTRATION. #838120是对MJS的问题提出的假想. 你说的有道理, 每种情况都是不一样的, 尤其是当时的场景不同. 我觉得MSSG的建议比较实际, 既然警察要求你PAY, 你可以FOLLOW UP WITH THEM.
                            每个人的处理问题的手法都是不同. 如果是我们的话, 即使警察要求, 我们也会拒绝, 并告诉店主. SUE ME. 留下自己的电话, 姓名就表明了, 我们会对自己的行为负责的.

                            也不要太生气了. 商家和消费者之间的冲突, 谁都碰得到, 而且绝对让人恼火. 前几个星期, 我们租U-HAUL的车搬家, 反光镜掉下来, U-HAUL从我的信用卡里扣了$150, 我认为这不是我的责任, 打电话给ROYAL BANK DISPUTE THE CHARGE, 才发现这里的银行, 至少ROYAL BANK不介入这种纠纷. 钱在U-HAUL手里, 我们很被动. 也让我们很是气愤. 不过10天后, 我把这钱一分不少地要回来了.

                            按照MSSG的建议, 一步一步把问题解决.

                            GOOD LUCK
                            • 谢谢饺子,我们是太不熟悉这里的情况了,所以被欺,谨希望通过这一次不愉快的经历,学到多一些经验教训,尤其是第一时间搞如何面对种种情况的经验。
                              如果我没搞错,你爱人是北美长大的,所以当你们面对一些情况时,你们至少知道什么可以做,什么不可以做,但很多其他的新移民不同。尽管我爱人也在加拿大生活了快三年,但这是第一次遇到真正的纠纷,而且一上来就参与进了警察,所以我们付出些代价是不足为奇的。
                              我们目前正在一步步寻求解决的方案。因为感觉到警察的不公正,我们已经准备complaint警察了,因此是否还可能ask them follow up the result很难说,至少我们不知道是否可能。
                              另外,由于我们根本就没有记录警号,所以目前也根本不知道怎么才能再跟那两个警察取得联系。
                              因此我来这里发帖,一来是前车之鉴,二来是集思广益。
                      • 警察用的是must?太过分了!!
                    • 另外一个细节我忘记说了,警察刚来没多久简单听了双方的陈述就要求看我爱人的驾照,拿过去以后迟迟没有归还我们,并且记下了驾照上的信息,我们当时担心如果拒绝警察要求我们付款的话,会发生更不利的情况。
              • 因为第一次遇到跟警察打交道的事情,加上长久以来对于警察这一角色的盲目心理,我们当时不敢拒绝警察的决定,因为我们不知道拒绝的后果会是什么
        • 同意,这是本地人常用的做法。只是大家打电话抱怨是没必要了,浪费时间而已。让他去告你,不是你告他。另外记住一点,警察说话不算数,法官说了才算。他must也好,怎么也好,他只能作为事件证人,不能裁判。
        • yes, make their phone number public. At least I can give them a very very nice call
      • 第一次遇到这样的情况,当时只能够凭自己的直觉做事,很多事情没有经验所以犯了一些错误,比如最终还是付了钱、没有记录警察的警号、没有第一时间抢先报警等等……
        目前说这些都太迟了,毕竟我们不可能去重复昨天的过程,只能想目前的情况下可以做什么了。
        • 1.2.
          1. Go to the nearest police station, find out who handled your case yesterday, they should have the record, don't mention black, asian. just when and where.

          2. Go to the store, park your car, tell the owner that you are waiting for the result, police will follow up as well.
    • 再支一招
      pulse24有一个老头叫superman,专帮人对付tough的事情,老头特执著。
      你要是觉得焦头烂额了,就让老头帮你对付那帮混蛋
      • 谢谢!必要的时候一定试试看
      • 他能帮离婚吗?怎么找他?谢谢
    • I think the cop sucks! Gas station guy wants somebody to pay the 11$. He was not wrong. You don't want to pay the extra 11$. You are not wrong neither. But that cop has no reason to ask you to pay the 11$!
      Thinking like this: You just went to gas station and added some gas as normal. The fee was 20$, but the cashier wanted you to pay 31$ by no reasons. OF COURSE you refused. Then the silly guy called 911, said somebody had stolen his gas balabalabala.... Then the sucks cop came in and forced or pushed you to pay the exstra 11$.
      Without evidence, how can that silly cop assume you as a thief first ??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      If the cashier want to accuse you of stealing gas, he should have EVIDENCE. That's the very very basic sense.
      So that cop sucks sucks sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Tulip! you will win!
      We Chinese will win!!!!!!!!
      • 感谢支持和鼓励!但事情不那么简单……
        不过我认为油站一方是故意陷害我们,他们一口咬定看见我们的车在一分钟内前后两次出进同一油泵加油,然后企图只付第二次加油的金额,这本身就是信口开河。我们到达时确实有车刚加好油准备离开,我们只看到车子在准备离开,当然不会去想是否已经付款,然后我们打算倒车进入加油位,正在我们掉站好车头准备倒车时看到另一辆车进了那个位置,开始我们还以为那个位置被别人先抢掉了,可是那辆车只是减速停顿了一下就开走了,我们想那辆车是因为看到我们倒车不敢往前开所以停顿的,这整个过程中大概确实历时一分钟左右,油站的人分明可以清楚地看到三辆车曾先后出进,事实上,那个位置距离窗口很近,几乎不可能看错的(即便有其他车辆阻挡了部分视线),但他们却一口咬定只看到我们的车出出进进,这就是我们无论如何也不能不跟他理论的原因,明摆着的凭空诬陷!
        • I don't think you should mention that you saw another car in or out. It's none of your business. .................
          You just insist that you just added 87 gas and payed! If the cashier insists you had stolen the 92 gas, he should provide evidence to the police. But now you had payed the 11$, it is another story. So my advice is to accuse that silly cop of lack of judgement and racialism! BTW where is your car now?
    • It is not just 11$. It let everyone feel Xiong Meng!
      • 对!这根本不是多少钱的问题。11块钱是不值得气愤的……
        在等待警察到来的时候,我就跟爱人说,我觉得这一次我们会吃亏。因为我当时明显感觉店主的凶气逼人,在报警的电话里无论如何都要把根本与我们无关的事情描述得证据确凿状,然后自己做很无可奈何状。
        另外,店伙计的英语虽然不怎么样,但那个店主英语很好,跟警察交流的时候明显占文化优势,我们只能枯燥的陈述事实,但他却讲得眉飞色舞,甚至于在警察要求我们付款后,他还在跟警察说什么几乎平均每两个星期就会发生一起加油不付款事件,这一次他多幸运没有让我们离开等等,简直是让人忍无可忍……!
        • #837782
    • 把这件事情讲给了在美国的同学听
      他说起他在美国的经历。他学校附近出租房子的当地人最喜欢把房子租给中国人,为什么?应为中国人“很好”。其他国籍的人很难对付,冬天房间冷了要闹,夏天热了也要闹,搞不好就把房东告上法庭,而把房子租给中国人就免去了这些麻烦。
      为什么洋人较少碰到不公平的待遇?公平是靠我们自己争取来,还是靠别人施舍?如果一个警察碰到白人、中国人、印巴人、黑人各10 人,分别给他们开了罚单,9各白人告这个警察,10个黑人联合更多的黑人抗议,1个中国人告,4个印巴人告,well,下次办案的时候就知道轻重了!
      • 很好的类比。这大概也就是我爱人公司的同事今天决定下班后联合去油站讨还公道的原因吧。越来越多的中国人意识到平等公正的待遇要靠我们自己争取。
        • Where and When, I can go!
        • 别忘了警察那头,因为按照你的介绍是owner提供证词,而最终警察要求你付的$11.00
          • Oh yeah! we also should go to the police station.
          • 我们没有忘记警察一方,正因为警察无权执法(他们自己也承认这件事不在他们管辖范围内,但我们当时不知道这就意味着我们可以拒绝他的强制性裁决)而使得我们无论如何要讨还公道。
        • Just park there together, and horn all the way, all the round...........................
      • Absolutely Right!!!! Men! Should wake up now!
      • Hands. I hope we should struggle for our right recklessly.
    • 你定时间,我们集体去complain, 向黑人学习!
      • UP UP UP UP
      • 非常感谢!我爱人的同事几个人已经去了(此时此刻),我不知道会得到什么样的结果。这里的人办事跟我们的逻辑不同,所以我目前不敢发动大家帮我做什么……
        我只希望通过这件事的整个过程,可以让每一个来这里的同胞感觉到自己保护自己的重要,以及团结的力量。
        当然,我很需要大家的出谋划策,事实上,有些行动我们已经在进行,包括给星报日报写信、预备complaint警察、寻求法律咨询、联系律师等等……
        这么多人关心这件事,并且慷慨的给与智慧、感情以及技术方面的支持,我们真的很感动。自从登陆以来,这是第一次感觉到我们在这片陌生的国土上并不孤独。
        • 对,不只是要个说法,一定要给那个JB加油站和说“must"的cop 以惩罚。 否则,呼吁大家再也不到ESSO加油。
        • Ask your local MP to help you.
        • hihihi, should arrange a time and go together ..... When?
          • support.
        • 当然不孤独!事情搞大了,中国同胞的车上都挂出五星红旗,搞它个多市上下一片红!
        • yeah, there are many supports in friendly rolia! support YOU! everyone knows that it is not just for one person, BUT for ALL CHINESE GUYS HERE!!!!! SUPPPORT AGAIN!!
      • 支持!
      • 坚决支持,让他们看看中国人不是好欺负的!!
      • 定时间啦!我也去complain!
    • what is your right when you deal with police?
      • 好,谢。
      • UP, support again!
    • Tulip, 你的车现在在哪儿?
      • 在我们自己手里,警察说了,这一点在法庭上对我们很不利
    • 最新进展!——警察愿意做我们的证人
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛下班后我爱人以及一群同事又去了那家油站,老板这一次干脆躲起来不出头,无论他们一群人怎么想办法,就是无法跟那个老板好好谈话,在电话中他态度很粗暴,说几句就挂掉了。万般无奈之下,这一次是我爱人他们打了911(顺便说一句,911的态度很差,电话里往往及其不耐烦,昨天我们在电话里陈述的时候就是如此,今天打了两次才算派来了警察,接电话的态度跟昨天一样恶劣)再次叫来了警察。今天来的第一批警察是两个白人,他们后来又叫来了昨天坚持让我们先付款的那个亚裔警察,但油站老板还是不出现,警察也无法强制他必须到场,因为整个事件没有犯罪因素,完全属于民事案件,毫无刑事色彩,警察无法干预。
      亚裔警察今天给了我爱人他的警号,然后说我们要去该去的地方,比如说法庭,然后给了一个法庭的地址,告诉怎么样去控诉。先到的那两个白人警察中有一个年纪较大的,他更是尽职,现场口授了一篇措辞强硬的投诉信,让我们发给Esso总部,按照他的说法,或者说他个人认为Esso总部收到这样的信就会给我们一个答复,甚至Esso总部可能会取消这个油站老板的职位。
      最后亚裔警察在大家的询问下给大家解释了为什么我们昨天必须付款。按照他的说法,如果我们昨天不付款,他就有权charge我们,那我们的麻烦就更大了。
      今天来的第一批警察否定了我们要求检验油箱内现有油的想法,因为任何人无法证明在我们昨晚离开油站到进行检查期间,我们没有设法清空油箱中的全部油,重新加入新的87标号油,因此在法庭上,这一点并不对我们有利。我想这也是为什么昨天油站老板很爽快地答应了安排检油但一定要推迟到今天的真实原因,他今天的避而不出也是同样的目的吧。
      警察们再次强调这完全是一件民事案件,不在他们管辖范围内,因此无论怎么跟油站坚持下去恐怕也不好再打911要求警察进入了。后面的事情就要全靠我们自己和律师。
      今天亚裔警察再次询问昨天所谓的目击证人——油站的伙计,问他是否敢发誓说昨天确实无误看到是我们的车反复进出同一油泵位,伙计不再如昨天般一口咬定,而是改口说——车辆很多,他也不是很确定等等。更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
      • 绝对可以到esso总部去投诉!因为如果承包该油站的老板被投诉次数很多的话,他就没法继续承包油站了。
      • 很高兴终于有了一点实际进展
        不过警察只能作为他到场后的过程的证人,而对你和那个老板间的核心争执不会做出有利于任何一方的证词;再有那个伙计随时可以改口,不过每一次都会降低他的证词的可信度,还是对你有利。努力,等你的好消息。有困难随时来
      • 很高兴!胸闷稍好了一些。这说明一个问题,
        中国人一定要团结起来,不怕把事情搞大。瞧那小子的熊样,看今天一帮中国人去了,也要掂量掂量自己的雀辞说不定要上法庭的,掂量掂量自己饭碗说不定要因为这11$搞砸了。不要怕,继续下去。在这里我继续声援,用得上的,或要凑个数的,打个招呼!没有问题。
        不要忘了:我们有13亿同胞!!!
        • 同意!只有团结起来,加拿大才有我们的地位。
      • 去ESSO的headoffice强烈投诉,语气要及其不满,甚至强硬。告诉他们如不解决,就要发律师信。另外大家不要再去这家油站加油了,请互相转告!
      • 好!坚持下去!
      • 所谓销毁证据 是也。不过也好,你已经给了钱,就可以告他,否则你只能等他告你,反而被动。
        本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛首先,这个Case应该上小额法庭,可以不要律师自己上,也可以要律师。但是法庭最多判给你$300律师费,所以要注意控制成本。

        拿到警号最重要,因为警察安排了检测(说明当时警察依然认定检测是有效的),由于油站的原因,检测不成,销毁证据的责任在油战一方。注意证明你多次要求油站检测,而他拒绝,拖拉,造成证据消失。

        本来应该连警察一起告,但是既然他同意作证,暂时放过他吧。

        另外你有没有拿你们加油的收据(不是11元的,我相信你油11元的收据),这很重要,是证明你付了自己的钱的重要证据。(万一没拿,你需要你的信用卡公司合作,提供证据证明是ESSO从你的卡上,划走了钱)
        然后上庭,直接用“如果我走掉,而他们没有抓到我,我为什么回来?他们既然看到是我没有给钱,为什么不追出去,而是等我回来?”另外说明他们销毁证据。这个案子基本上是赢定的。
        第一,不合逻辑,
        第二,警察现在会支持你的主张
        第三,收据在你手上,说明是他欠你钱。

        另外,警察说你不给钱他就Charge你是不对的。他不可以因为一个人报案在现场Charge你。他只能记录你的身份,调查以后取证,有把握了,才能Charge你(就是刑事起诉)。除非你当场认罪。所以(其它还没有受害的群众)千万记住,不管警察怎么骗你“现在认了,就不用付钱了”千万不要承认。

        如果他Charge你失败,你就可以翻过来告警察要求巨额赔偿了,(当然,会很麻烦)。要是刑事起诉这么简单,加拿大的犯罪率也就不会这么高了。
        不过,既然他同意作证,$11也不是大数,反而给你赢得了告油站的主动,就不跟他较真了。

        给 ESSO写信,给他3个星期。告诉ESSO你已经准备sue他,只是如果ESSO处理的当,你可能Exclude ESSO as accused。如果3个星期没有回复,你就sue油站和ESSO(除非ESSO回复,宣布油站负责,否则你必须一起SUE)。更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 虽然我还在北京,但马上要去多市了,看了以上的帖子,深表同情和气愤,强烈支持你们的维权行动,让我们以这件事为起点,展开一场维护华裔权利和华裔同胞的普法活动吧!再一次热烈支持!!!
      • 首先向ESSO总部投诉,得不到满意结果,就集体去游行示威(要办合法手续),让他们知道华人是团结的、不可随意欺负的
        • 没错,可惜身在北京,使不上劲。全加华人团结起来!!
    • 其实这事应该直接向ESSO总部投诉.
    • SUPPORT YOU! if you want some more people to gether in the gas station, post the place and time, I MUST be there provided it's a weekend!
    • 我的一个朋友也遇到过这种情况,损失几十块钱,比你还多。他的语言不好,没有据理力争。坚决支持你斗争到底!看来他们是在欺负人。可能还有别的人受害。要教训他们!!!!!!
    • This is a action list summarized the all suggestions, let's put in action helping a good people.
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛First of all I am sorry I don't have chinese input software. I am one of co-worker of Mr.Wang, I want tell everyone here Mr.Wang is very honest, responsible IT professional I ever see, I totally trust him, I can't believe he is treated like this. That's why I decided to involve in his case althrough I am very busy and have 4 month baby at home, I am the one with him tonight in the gas station, we are forced standing outside with cold snow and rain for more than 2 hours. I was very disappoint for police and gas station.

      It is not money issue, It is about a person's indignity, brothers and sisters, it is not Mr.Wang's issue, it is everybody's issue. Today it happened on Mr.Wang, it will be you tomorrow, so let's put action to support Mr.Wang.

      Since this is big job, I don't think Mr.Wang can handle it all by himself, he is already exhausted by this attact. so we need work together, let's split the job into few group, and each group focus on one job, all group coordinate through coordination center.

      I understand everybody is busy, but brother and sister, it is not easy living in Canada, we come to here from our hometown thousland miles away with very litter support, if we don't support each other, who else can help us?.

      Action list:
      0) coordination center group
      coordinate the activities amount groups and make sure information channel flow properly.

      1) Esso oil company group
      Step 1:
      Init. letter with support of Legal assist team

      2) Credit Card company group - stop payment - product undelivery (Mr.Wang)
      Explain them the situation, this is a produt undelivery case, ask them hold the money transferring, letter is better before call them.

      3) Contact Media (Sun/Toronto star/CTV/XingTao/Channal4 station)
      I already start on contact info for CTV, they has a TV program specially for this type of thing, Channel 4 chinese program, I know one of host, I will contact him).
      Step 1:
      We need collect contact information, contact channels.
      Call them, forget your poor english, as long as you can speak clearly.
      but better send email before call them, so they can understand better.

      4) Contact comsumer protect organization (...)
      Step 1:
      we need contact information information
      What we can do as a consumer, who can help us..

      5) Contact police deparement (Mr.Wang and assistants)
      Document what police said, get police name and station.

      6) Legal assist and contact team
      Step 1:
      Find legal assist information.
      Contact them,
      Legal question for example:
      What we should do (proper legal steps) if we want do demostration in front of this gas station.

      7) Supportter and contact team
      Collect supporter's email and contact information (tel).
      so we can act more efficiently and quickly response.
      setup contact center (create information center by yahoo email maybe) and tel

      8) Evident collection team
      collect gas sample (must with witness),
      collect witness 's word, organize to a report.

      Brothers and sisters, let's get together, support Mr.Wang, protect our rights. please provide your suggestion quickly and take action now!更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
      • I forget one point in Media group:
        Post message in English news group and chinese news group.
        This job need coordination with other groups, init email content.
      • zhuojun.li@sympatico.ca
      • Support! Call me at 647-8868183 if needs help. I will try my best.
      • Esso address and fax number
        111 St. Clair Ave West
        P.O Box 4029
        Station A
        Toronto, ON.
        M5W 1K3

        Fax: 416-968-4783
      • Count me in! NOTHING IS TOO LATEI I’ve been thinking, days and nights, what is the best way to solve the problem. I finally find that this might be a good idea..
        本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛I’ve been watching this thread from the very beginning. I felt very sorry that I can’t help much because I am a new comer too. But I want to help. I’ve been thinking, days and nights, what is the best way to solve the problem. I finally find that this might be a good idea. The point is, NOTHING IS TOO LATE.

        I think the followings are the priorities for this case:

        1. Get the money back
        2. Win the case on court
        3. Have the gas station manage’ open apologize.
        4. Drive him out of his position
        5. Write to Esso
        6. Let more people know


        We want to achieve to goal #4, but let’s plan so that we can make it at least to #3. How can we achieve that? I think the most important thing we need to do now is to collect evidences that support us, so that we can win the case in court.

        How to collect evidences that support us? It goes like this... As I said, I am a new comer too. This is all my imagination. It is quite open to public criticism.

        It takes time (and money) to get a lawyer. Before we have a lawyer, we can still get most of things done. Ask some one who looks like a lawyer to play as a lawyer! All he need are a nice suit and tie, and our well preparation. :-) The following is my imaginary conversations. You can use it as a script.

        L – your “lawyer”, H – him, the gas guy.

        L: “Hello, I am Mr. xxx’s lawyer. I need to talk to you for a second. I am now totally in charge of this case. This is Mr. xxx’s authorization. “

        -- show him the sheet of authorization, for just a second.

        H: sorry I don’t have time.

        L: We are here to collect evidences. We are not here to argue. It won’t be long.

        H: sorry I don’t have time.

        L: I am Mr. xxx’s lawyer who is taking care of this case. You have made an allegation and you are obligated to provide evidences. If you don’t cooperation, you will face serious charges for wrong allegation (I’m not sure this term) later in court.

        H: See I’m busy.

        L: We are here to collect evidences. We are not here to argue. It won’t be long.

        -- If it get worst than that, L might say “It is Now 11am, Nov x, 2002. I represent Mr. xxx to pay you a visit. Are you refusing to give the evidences? I’ll write it down in my memo and you will face serious charges for it”


        --- Now H is at the table. Yes! That’s the point! Nail him down on the table and we are half done. The plan is to collect all evidences. Once we’ve got all the evidences that you’ve said in this forum on paper and signed by him, this case is so obvious that you will win. You don’t even need a lawyer for that.

        -- Now H is at the table. First we need to calm him down.

        L: “As I said, we are here to collect evidences, not to argue. So we need to put down the absolute facts, without any personal objective believes. Based on Mr. xxx’s statement, I’ve put down this. Do you agree?“

        -- Talk him into agreement that, on 11.4 xx:xx, there is a car pumped #92 gas, and fled away without paying the $11 charge. Then xx minutes later. Mr xxx arrived, and pumped #87 gas, for $xx and paid by credit card.

        Get down as much detail as you can, such as which gas pump, etc.

        L: “Mr. xxx, do you agree what he has said? Ok, please sign it here. Now Mr, ??? please sign your name here.”

        -- hehehe, we need him to sign!

        Now let’s get down to business. Ask him to describe the car that has fled away! Yes, liars are afraid of details! I believe once his is asked with the question, with the serious look on L’s face, we can scare the shit out of him.

        L: “please describe the car that has fled away”

        H: “It’s his car!”

        L: “Do you have anything more to say to backup your allegation? What color is the car?”

        -- I believe that he can not say anything in detail. This is evidence already! You can say in the court that “after merely 3 days, Mr. ??? has forgotten everything about the fled away car, which he has been so strongly believed. This was once the center (give me a better word, crucial?) of the controversial debate, and he backed off entirely within merely 3 days”

        Because he can not say anything in detail, we need to prepare a long list of tricky questions. We need him to say “don’t know” for every question!!! This is evidence!
        If he can make up a story on the fly, get him to talk more, the more he made up the story in a rush, the more chances we can catch him later.

        H: “Gee, there’s too much question, I can’t remember any of them”

        L: “This case can run as long as 2 years, and you will be asked with the same questions again and again. To help you prepare for it, you’d better think of them seriously now, instead of 2 years later.”

        What are the tricky questions? Well, I think once you’ve get everything down to detail, every question is tricky questions. For example, “When the fled-way car arrived, what were you doing? What made you believe that it has some similarity with Mr. xxx’s car?” and, “When the fled way car arrived, who get out to pump the gas? Describe the individual. What kind of close does the individual wear? What color is it? Does the individual wear a hat that day?” all of these can be tricky questions to me.

        Also you can ask, “How long did it take for the individual to pump the gas”. Is it tricky question? Well, if he says too short, you can argue that he can’t notice so much detail in such a short time. If he says very long, you can argue that it normally won’t take that long, and why didn’t he catch the “thief” if he has spent that long and you have pay so much attention? I’m sure you can come up with many good questions, much better than mine. Please note, you go there to collect evident. Do not ever argue with him. Simply write down all his saying! Remember, no argument. That’s the key to win.

        So, you see why it is important to nail him down on the table? Once you’ve get all of this, on paper and signed by him, it is so obvious that you will win the case without a lawyer. So, give that $500 buck easy money (lawyer fee) to your friend. :-) Good luck!!! We all support you!!!

        Oh, BTW, you should really close you question like this: “Please go over this script again. Do you have anything to say in addition to above? … Take you time, I’ll give you 5 minutes for that. Ok, no” Write down that “NO”, and the whole question too! hehehe. Nail him down! He can’t say anything more to harm you any more!

        L: “Mr. xxx, I need you to sign this transcript. It does not mean that you agree with him, it is just a proof of your eyewitness. Now Mr, ??? please sign your name here.”

        Oh, another thing, if we can successfully scare the shit out of him half way thorough, meaning he can not go any further, you can write down something like this “Mr. ??? withdraw his allegation at ??? because he realized that evidently there is no strong reasons to back it up.”

        In a word, the credibility of the key eyewitness (him, the gas guy) is crucial for you to win this case. If we can beat the crab out of him and/or his credibility, we will sure to win. Be confident; go to the court on your behalf! I am slow in thinking/reacting (this post only come out after 3 days), but I will go to the court with you if you want! Everybody, spare some time, and go to the court with tulipa, to show your support! Thanks更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
        • Sorry if it is a bit too long. :-)
    • 哥们,你当时的做法也有些问题 1:车当时不可以开走,而应该马上检查,你现在就很被动了。2:不能让那个店伙计信口开河,他当时说什么,都要让他马上签字画押!实在不行下次带个采访机去。
      另外这次一定要跟他们斗到底,全体中国人都在你背后支持你!
      • 我第一点的确有一点失策。伙计的信口开河都有警察可以作证,问题不是最大。
      • 不是全体中国人的,很不幸有个别国人以骂街骂娘为能事叫嚣……看链接
    • 有没有人知道esso投诉的email? 我们一人一封email搞走那个加油站的owner。然后让他们给个说法?
      • THAT WOULD BE NICE.
      • LET'S JUST DO IT!
      • Esso 多伦多总部的地址和电话。我打Esso 800电话拿到的。
        111 St. Clair Ave West
        P.O Box 4029
        Station A
        Toronto, ON.
        M5W 1K3

        Fax: 416-968-4783
        • great! Just sent a complain letter. so happy!
          • 谢谢大力支持,不过请大家动作稍缓,等我们自己的投诉信送出再声援
      • good idea!
    • Follow to this thread to collect email signature.
      Please replay to this thread only ONE level,
      with your name, your email address and contact info.

      I want have a email signature list.

      This is step one.
      Remember it is related to all of us, not only Mr.Wang.

      Thanks for support.
      • Robert Choi - robertchoi@sympatico.ca -416-937-****
        本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛This is my letter to Toronto star:

        I am writing this email to support Mr. Hardy Wang, a very honrest, respect canadian citizen for the case of discrimation of Esso gas station (Finch and Keele), I also want express my deep concern on the process and handling this case from police department, their professional ability on protect minority in Toronto.

        The story is: Mr. Wang went to Esso station for filling gas last night, when Mr.Wang went in and pay his money, employee in the gas station accusing Mr. Wang for stealing gas. Mr. Wang was filling gas # 87 and Esso employee accuse Mr.Wang stealing #91 gas. Mr.Wang refuse pay for #91 portion because he did not fill the #91 gas, he was using #87 gas. So police called. Mr.Wang was treat badly, Mr.Wang loose his indiginity at all. Surprisely, police came and ask Mr.Wang paid the #91 gas, Mr.Wang, under the pressure of police, paid the gas bill for #91 gas.

        Mr.Wang, as a good citizen and professional computer engineer, always act a honest citizen in our company or as a friend, I believe the discrimination is working in this case, why they pick Mr.Wang and police handling case like this, Esso did not provide any prove and police just listen only to them and ask Mr.Wang pay, WHY?

        And It is definitely NOT right for a police act as court to enforce Mr.Wang to pay the gas.

        Mr. editor, It is not money issue, it is about a person's indignity. Mr.Wang, as a high educated professional, he don't need to steel the gas (only about $13.00), and it does not make any sense for Mr.Wang filling two different type of gas (#91 and #87) in the same time. It does not make any sense he walk in paid the money for his #87 gas if he want steal.

        Why Mr.Wang?
        Why police enforce Mr.Wang to pay?

        As a good honest citizen, we all has responsibility to maintain our peaceful community, maintain our Canadian's most proud value: fair, honest, integrity, respect and indignity. I see those values are damaged by ugly discrimination and unprofessional behaviour of our police, it make all of us loose confident on our most proud Canadian values.

        Police represent as fair, community and our Canadian value keeper, I do not see it is happening in this case, why?

        As a Canadian, I deeply believe in our values, we should not let those thing happen. As most of reputable media, I believe Toronto Star news paper is main stream doing anything to protect our values, I deeply thank you for your effort on this.

        We will closely follow up with this case with Mr.Wang, and take any necessary actions needed to protect Mr.Wang's rights to restore his and our confident on our Canadian values and rebuild confident on our police. I hope you, as a Canadian value keeper and respected public media, support Mr.Wang.

        We demand Esso apology to Mr.Wang!, We demand police an explaination!.

        Thank you


        Robert Choi更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
        • 实施描述部分写得不太明白。按信中说的,好像是王先生加了87号油,而加油站让他按91号油付钱。对91号Portion部分没有解释。
          • Thank you, can you help me doing the modifications.
          • 我实际上加了87号油,但是前面有人加了91号油逃跑了,油站硬要说我偷油了。
        • Li, Zhuojun (416)224-**** zhuojun.li@sympatico.ca
        • here
          Mr. Wang goes to the same Esso gas station every Monday. But this week, on November 6, 2002, after he filled up his tank and was paying at the pump, he was called into the office by the Manager of the Gas Station. He was required to pay $11 more because, as the manager said, Mr. Wang drive to the same pump twice within one minute and filled up twice. The previous one was with #91 gas, which was of $11 in value, and the second one was his normal #87 gas. Mr. Wang denied it and refused to pay the #91 portion. As the dispute went on, Mr. Wang suggested calling the police. So the shop personnel called police and made a bias statement over the phone. A police officer came in about half an hour. Although Mr. Wang did his best to explain that it is not reasonable for him to drive in and to fill up twice at the same pump, the police officer ordered him to pay off the $11 before he could leave, as well as a test of Mr. Wang's tank gas be conducted.
          • Thanks a lot
      • Yuriy Sychov - sychov777@hotmail.com - (416) 569 6321
        I do not speak Hardy's language but I work with him and I support his case.
      • God and we all support you. Justice is on our side. david zou davidz.1@netzero.net
      • Hardy Wang -- hardywang@yahoo.com -- 416-494-9636
        • I have faxed a complain letter to ESSO jennifer xia yzb2100@hotmail.com ----905-305-0923
          • 万分谢谢,不过还是那句话——请大家动作稍缓,等我们自己的投诉信送出再声援。
      • Jeff qiang --- gjyq@yahoo.com---- 4165051651
      • Ming Zhao , mingletter@sina.com, 647-8868183
      • Qing Mei, meiqing01@hotmail.com, 416-732-0680
      • tulipa, tulip_hardy@hotmail.com, 416-494-9636
      • JOSEPHINE FENG
        josewo@sympatico.ca
      • This queue it too long, let continue our support to Mr.Wang at following URL....
        The new queue is in same www.rolia.ca site,
        The URL is:

        http://www.rolia.net/forum/forum_showPost.php?tno=98886&pno=840820&_bno=50&_cno=5050&

        Let's get together to support a good person, support our community.

        ONE VOICE CAN BE IGNORED, THOUSLAND VOICE CAN CHANGE THE WORLD,

        BROTHERS AND SISTERS, DON'T KEEP SILENT, SPEAK OUT!!!!

        THANK YOU
      • bonmotwang@yahoo.com (905)844-9416
    • CONTACT THIS GUY FIRST, NO NEED TO FIND A LAWYER. e-mail:helps@citytv.com Silverman Hotline: 416-340-2449. Fax: 416-591-0292.
    • 我问了一下本地人。。。。。。。
      他们说,应该试图给Esso这个公司写信,告诉他们你的境遇,看看公司的人怎么说!!
    • 我们自己给Esso总部的投诉信,请大家提建议修改。
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Dear Sir or Madam:
      I was a loyal customer of Esso gas, but from now, I am not sure if I still will be or not. Because days ago, something really bad happened to me in one Esso station.
      At night of Nov 4, 2002, I went to the Esso station at the intersection of Finch and Keele to fill my tank (37.8 litres of regular gas altogether), when I paid the fee, worker in this station told me that there was another $11 bill (about 13 litres premium gas) I need to pay. It is obviously there was somebody before me using that pump without paying the money and ran away. But the worker and the manager, whose name is Sam Kotani, of gas station insisted that I had stolen this amount of gas! They even cannot provide any proof. We had some dispute, and called police. After about 30 minutes, two police officers came, hearing both sides’ comment. We had a verbal agreement before police officer, that I paid this $11 bill first and exchanged each other’s contact information, and then on next day (Nov 5, 2002) gas station should arrange some third party company or person to collect gas from tank to do some analyse to see if there is any premium gas in my tank. I waited all day without getting any response from the manager.
      At night of Nov 5, 2002, some of my colleagues and I went to the station once more. With great patience, we waited there to try to talk with the manager, but the manager just tried to hide away, obviously he does not have any willing to solve this problem. We had to call police once again. The officer who handled this case one night before came again. When the officer asked the worker could he swear to God that he had seen me to steal the gas, he changed his original word. He said there were so many cars that time, he couldn’t see clearly at all! The police officer and my colleagues can be the witness. Look, what a liar he is! Even in this situation, the gas station still refused to make apology to me and refund $11.
      I think this event is very serious to me. I am an IT professional with good reputation, but now what that gas station and/or Esso Company did is to stab my reputation and dignity. I have told this experience to my colleagues and many of my friends, they all feel very angry about it, and express they won’t put gas from any Esso station any more from now on until you do some investigation and make everything clear.
      Esso is a well-known big company, I don’t think you will risk your reputation to do something wrong. I hope this letter will cause your attention, and to hear response from you soon; otherwise I will have to take some legal action to protect myself.
      As I have mentioned at the beginning, I WAS a loyal customer of Esso gas, I attached 5 pieces of photocopies of Esso receipts in the past couple months. You can notice that almost every week, I put around 35 litres regular gas, especially within recent 1 or 2 months, so why do I need to steal premium gas from station? Please pay attention to the first attached receipts, the first line, and two receipts from right; they are what I paid at that night (Nov 4, 2002), especially the top right one, which does not belong to me at all.

      Phone: 416-494-9636 (H),
      Email: hardywang@yahoo.com








      Sincerely
      Yours truly,更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
      • 基本没用
        纯粹是浪费时间,
        esso根本不会为了你一个消费者去干什么事的,你在那里加油和他们一点关系都没有,就算全体在加拿大的中国人可能他们都不当回事,你一个人吓唬得了谁?
        你凭什么说人家是liar,你能证明人家当时说了些什么吗?既然警察让你交钱,说明人家当时是对得,你是错的,就算你被冤枉了,也是警察的责任,这和别人的名誉丝毫没有关系。

        我是非常赞成当时把他臭骂一顿的,虽然这是发生在我身上,我也未必有这个勇气,但是我可以告诉你,这是最好的方法,保证他们下次老老实实的。

        要想把事情闹大,应该在警察身上打开缺口,警察拿着我们交的税,凭什么不为我们服务?一场比赛如果裁判偏心,根本没法进行下去。

        说的肯定不和你的心思,不管怎么着,还是祝你好运!
        • 你问我们凭什么?你看看第二次警察怎么说
          警察很严肃的对着第一天指证我们朋友的工作人员说“CAN YOU SWEAR TO GOD THAT YOU HAVE SEEN THE GUY THERE STEAL YOUR GAS". 他的回答是“NO, I CAN'T. THERE WERE TOO MANY CARS THERE" 。这不是liar 是什么。 简单的说,第一天,他理直气壮说我朋友偷,第二天警察问他是否能对上帝发誓他看见我朋友偷油,他说不行,因为车太多他没有看清楚,这不是liar ?

          我们都知道ESSO 不在乎一点钱,即使我们筹集1万人支持不买油,也就是1千万元而已。 但是,我们在乎的是一种态度。我不相信这是大公司立足的态度。
          • 没抓到点子上
            警察当天问过他同样的话吗?如果问过,就是我没有看懂,非常抱歉,如果没有问过,就等于你在瞎说,啥事你也应当站在对方的立场上想象,千万别因为激动耽误了事。

            至于筹集多少人不卖油,不是我没信心,真的,没用,现实一点,想象看,可能吗?有几个人知道rolia? 就算是esso这次还了你11元钱,下次照做,对她一点影响都没有,钱还给你了,你肯定还直说谢谢。

            想象看,如果警察当场让你走,那是什么后果?下次再遇到这事,你肯定开着车就走,还跟他们废话!

            知道你们在为大家做好事,不过别抱太大希望,除了能得到你的$11,什么都和上次一样,他们该干什么,下次还是接着干。

            还是那句话,祝你好运!
            • 警察的确问过,所有在场的人可以作证
              警察的确问过,所有在场的人可以作证
              • Totally support you. It is not only about money. In this case, either you are liar or he is. You know you are not, so do it.
          • Please do what you shuold do and ignore any buzzy noise here. That is hard to avoid, there are always negtive people here. You should know that we all stand at your side. See the long support list.
      • 请英文更好的大侠挺身而出!(CBC或有英语母语的家人朋友更好), 该出手时就出手,帮忙改改,(不强求签名)。只觉得现在的不够言简意赅,不正式(Formal),严肃(Serious),没有表达出气愤填膺和强烈愤慨,效果事倍功半。
        • 谢谢指正,下面有一个第二版,公司一个同事帮助修改的。
      • 郁金香JJ。同情你们的遭遇。前几天一直很忙。我刚才班门弄斧试着把封信改短了点儿,希望对你们有帮助.GOOD LUCK...
        本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛To Whom it May Concern:

        We have never been so shocked, appalled and dismayed in our lives at the treatment we have been given by one of your Esso stations at st.# st.name in Toronto.

        On Nov 4, 2002, at about 6:30pm my wife and I purchased 37.8 litres of regular gas (#87) at NAME OF STATION. As a regular customer of that station, we make the payment through the machine by credit card. However, this time we were asked to come inside and to pay another $11 bill for #91 gas that was unpaid by a customer a couple of minutes before us. Beyond this, the manager Sam Kotani and one of his clerks insisted that they saw that I AM the one who left without paying, which means I stole the gas! But he has no evidence for that. I refuse to pay. To resolve the dispute, we called the police. The police offers suggested that, 1) to finish the business quickly, I pay the $11; 2) on the next day (Nov 5, 2002) the gas station arrange a third party to check the gas from my tank to see if there is any evidence that I filled the premium gas. So I paid the $11 bill but heard nothing from Sam Kotani the next day.

        On Nov 5, 2002, I went to the station again. But Mr. Sam Kotani refused to show up after I waited for ?? minutes. The police officer who handled the case on Nov 4 later came to the station. When the officer asked the clerk whether he could swear to god that he had seen me stealing the gas, the clerk said no, which is opposite to his answer on Nov 4. Even in this situation, the gas station refused to make any apology to me and refund the $11.

        The impact of the unresolved gas issue has been tremendous on us and the community I live in. A large amount of time has been spent on it and my wife and I have been feeling cheated and unfairly treated. We are not gas thief therefore we deserve a formal apology and further compensation. My colleagues and my friends are also shocked. They are being extremely supportive to us and are ready to show further support if we need.

        We have been a loyal ESSO customer for ?? years/months and obviously know that this is not a normal circumstance. I am attaching 5 copies of Esso receipts in the past couple months, and you would notice my pattern of filling about 35 litres regular gas to my tank every week.

        In conclusion, I request 1) that Esso company look into this matter and help resolve the dispute; 2) that we be refunded $11 we spent on other’s gas; and 3) a formal written apology from the gas station and …

        We can be reached by….

        Phone: 416-494-9636 (H),
        Email: hardywang@yahoo.com更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
        • 好!
        • 谢谢你的帮助!
          • 你俩ID真多 :D 都不知道谁是谁了^_^ 有消息通知一声儿...
            • 就两个:tulip, hardy
            • 我们每个人只有一个ID,tulip是我,Hardy是我爱人,我们是当事人,还有三、四个是我爱人的同事,都是事发第二天跟我爱人去油站讨说法的。
      • 投诉信修改第二版,大家提意见
        本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Nov 7 2002

        Dear Sir or Madam,

        Re: Complaint of wrong accuse by Esso gas station(Finch and Keele)

        I am a loyal customer of Esso Canada, but from now on, I am not sure whether I will still be one anymore.

        On the night of Nov 4, 2002, 5:20PM, I went to the Esso gas station at the intersection of Finch and Keele to fill up my tank (total 37.8 litres of regular #87 gas only) using the Speedpass. When I was ready to leave, the attendant in the gas station stopped me and told me that there was another unpaid $11 premium #91 gasoline bill (about 13 litres of premium gas) that I also put in without paying. It is obvious that there was somebody before me used the same pump without paying and ran away. But the attendant and the gas station manager, his name is Sam Kotani, accused me of stealing this amount of gas in front of many other customers. We had a dispute, and I requested to call the police and they did. About 30 minutes later, two police officers came. After hearing from both sides, the police suggested I paid the $11 bill for now and the gas station will arrange to take some gas sample out of my tank to see whether there is any premium gasoline. I also agreed because I know for a fact that I do not have any premium gasoline in my gas tank and the wrong accuse will be cleared.

        Nov 5,2002, I waited all day without getting a call from the gas station manager. On the night of Nov 5, 2002 5:20 PM, I went back to the gas station with my colleagues hoping I could talk to the gas station manager. With great patience, we waited there for more than 2 hours, mostly outside of the store in the rain and the cold, but the manager just tried to avoid us and was not willing to admit they made a mistake. We called the police once again and the same officer came back even though he could not do much but was able to get the gas station attendant to admit that he did not really see who actually stole the gas and that they never have the intention of taking gas sample from my gas tank to perform any test. At this point, it is clear that all they care about is somebody stole $11 gas from them and they just want to pick the most convenient customer to pay for it without any consideration on how serious it is to wrongly accuse an innocent person of stealing. They went even as far as saying we are not welcome to their gas station anymore without ever apologize and return the money to me!

        I think this is an outrageous event. I am a well-educated professional with good reputation. Being accused of stealing in front of many other customers in the gas station is a tremendous humiliation. I had told this experience to my colleagues, my friends and a discussion forum on the Internet. Everybody is furious about it. They all promised not to buy any gas from Esso any more until Esso is willing to step up and take appropriate action.

        Esso Canada is a well-known company and I hope you will not corrupt your reputation by letting people that franchise your gas station to ruin the goodwill. I truly expect this letter will raise your attention, and is looking forward to hear any responses from you soon; otherwise I will take the necessary legal action against all the parties that were involved in this wrong accuse to protect myself.

        As I have mentioned at the beginning, I am a loyal customer of Esso gas. I have attached 5 pieces of photocopies of my Esso receipts in the past couple of months. You can notice that almost every time, I put no more than 40 litres of regular graded gas. (You can see more of my purchase history by looking at my Speedpass payment records and it clearly shows that I was not the one that stole the premium gas!)


        Yours truly,





        Yin Wang
        416-494-9636 (H)
        hardywang@yahoo.com

        Included is a list of people that are willing to join me to boycott Esso if no appropriate action is being taken:更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
        • 我正在收集签名,也就是大家杂看明白那封信最后一段落之后,要是自愿的话,我把你的名字,email或者电话加入。
          • 谢谢 Bus 兄的提醒。我现在设立了一个Email账号 hardywang@hotpop.com ,如果大家愿意帮助我可以写信到这里。如果看了投诉信的最后一段,愿意加入抵制Esso的行列那么给我一下您的姓名+电话或者Email。
            格式例子:Hardy Wang, 416-494-9636, hardywang@yahoo.com。
        • I think the most important and time critical thing is to collect evidences. See my posting #841988.
          • 谢谢,当前我想看看Esso总部的反馈。要使他们能够道歉问题也算解决。油站的经过都有警察可以作证,尤其是那个伙计前后两天当着警察说不同的话,死扣这点他们应该就会很难受了。
        • 提请注意!!!我对你的投诉信的一些建议.
          我认为你这封信缺了最主要的东西-明确的主张(purpose)
          在college学的efficient communication课里面,提到写投诉信必须在第一段里,开门见山地提出你的主张。(或要求退货,或要求退款,或要求道歉,或要求赔偿。)
          第二段里,再详叙事实。
          最后,要求对方在一定时间内答复,(具体时间一定要给出),否则你会采取的行动。(如起诉,杯葛抗议等等)。
          你在信中只要求公司采取适当的行动,可究竟什么行动根本没有提。公司也不会明白你的要求到底是什么。又怎能有什么行动。
          我认为你的第一段应该开门见山地说,要求公司退还11元你不该付的油费,以及要求公司道歉,并金钱赔偿你蒙羞所受的精神损失。

          我希望你投诉成功。
          weidong Li ameia@sina.com
          • 好建议。。。
          • 谢谢建议。有一点,你觉得对于给Esso多少时间来处理怎么设想的?心理不是很明确多少时限算是比较合理的。
            • one week shoud be enough. if more than 2 weeks, too long, if you send fax or email. Regular mail might take longer time for them to respond.
              • 最好贴出几个声援报名电话,这样征集的名单会多些。不少人不想在网上公布自己的个人资料。
                • 不错的建议。不过有点尴尬的是我们目前必须用电话线上网,而且白天家里没人,只有留言电话,所以用作声援接入电话比较困难。换作E-mail可以么?
            • within a week. dumpling's suggestion is good
        • 另外一些具体意见
          你的第一段没意义,可以去掉。换成你的明确主张
          把警察的suggest改成order.表明你是迫于警察的压力付的款。
          第三段加上他们拒绝检查油箱。
          第四段写你的精神受到的损害。
          最后给对方时限,要求尽快答复,否则如何如何
        • 大略看了一下,比第一版强很多,语言也地道很多,但是感觉事实陈述仍然不够简洁和击中要害。你的要求和观点不够明确,语言仍然不够愤怒和强硬。祝好运。
    • any follow up?
    • 我问了一下同事,他们建议:
      1.上Small Claim Court告他,不用律师费(?),可以要求补偿误工损失。2。请一个律师,有种律师专门打这种官司,(我见过各种交通事故,摔倒等官司律师得广告),他们你得到的补偿中得Commission。你可以要求包括名誉损失等在内得各种补偿,听说你收入越高,他们越乐意。好处是(听说)你不用付任何费用,打赢官司,他能得钱,你也能得到补偿。
      所以我认为,最好是找律师解决,当然,包括抗议等手段决不可少。请各位同胞介绍几个这样得律师,对Rolia得网友们绝对是个好消息。
      另外,看了许多同胞碰到得问题,除了我们团结帮助之外,熟悉法律底朋友能否贴一些加拿大的法律文章,或案例,让我们以后碰到相似的问题,不仅心理有底,而且知道如何保留和找证据。加拿大是讲他的所谓法律的,我们中国人也要好好利用法律。
    • 进展——投诉信已经以挂号信的形式寄出,另外,同时发了一份传真给Esso总部。
      如果两个星期后不能收到任何来自Esso的答复,我们将动用法律手段,上小额法庭也好,专门请律师也罢。
      “买股调研中”说的那类专门打这种官司的律师哪里去找呢?如果哪位朋友对此比较了解,请赐教。
      谢谢大家始终如一的关注!
    • 解决这件事将是一个漫长而艰苦的过程,虽然我们有决心坚持到底不放弃,但恐怕短期内不会有什么最新进展来通报大家,敬请所有关心支持的朋友内心等待。
      • 11$呢?怎么处理的?油也没有去查?
    • 2002-11-25 最新进展
      刚刚接到一个Esso这个区域的经理的电话(鬼知道新怎么转到了他的手里),他向我道歉了,同时说今天会替我向Esso总部的Customer Service打电话说明这件事情。并且说应该会写信给我道歉,并且退回11块钱,同时会打电话给那个油站的经理,让那他亲自打电话给我道歉。
      具体进展继续拭目以待。
      • 恭喜恭喜!战斗取得局部胜利!
      • 这里太长,你重新开个贴把
      • Good! :-)
      • Finally!!!! Congratulations!!!
        • 革命尚未成功,尚需努力等待最终结果
      • GOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDD, 这是大家的榜样
      • Good! Congratulations!
      • Admire! Good news!
      • YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO,已是热泪盈眶了。这是一个好榜样!
      • 好!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 继续关注.........
    • 好。我们就是应该据理力争。
    • 2002-11-20最新进展
      才发现上面一个最新进展应该是2002-11-19(2002-11-25写错了)。
      那个油站的老板刚才打电话给我表示道歉,并且说随时欢迎我过去油站,并且会给我一些免费的洗车服务之类的话。
      当然还要等待Esso给我写信道歉,并且退钱。
      • 另起贴吧,累
      • Congratulations!
      • 由衷喝彩!!!
      • 好啊!
      • 好像这个结果是可以接受的。。。认真是对的。
      • Good!
      • 终于听到你的好消息,离全胜就差一步了。坚持!
        • 我怎么觉得已经全胜了?
          • 因为还没有收到书面道歉信以及退款,所以只是名义上有了些进展,实质性的还要假以时日呢。
      • Good job!! Congratulations!
      • 从事发当天起,我还没有到ESSO去加过油!
        • 我有先见之明,来加快三年,从没在esso加过油
    • Esso上个星期寄来了一封委婉的道歉信,事实上严格说只是一封感谢信,感谢我们给他们提供了一个提高服务质量的机会一类的话,然后信里面附上了50元的礼券,可以在整个加拿大境内使用的。
      我们对于没有得到书面道歉有些不满,不过感觉继续跟Esso纠缠也没什么意思,毕竟不是Esso公司直接做错了什么事情,非要这么大的一间公司一个正式的道歉似乎也有点过分,所以最终我们决定接受这样的处理方式。油站老板曾电话给我们道歉过,但态度并不诚恳,但鉴于Esso的态度,我们也不打算对他继续追究下去,整个事件到此算是圆满结束了。
      谢谢大家一直的支持和关注!尤其感谢所有以各种形式声明支持我们的朋友!!尽管我们最终没有使用大家的电子签名,但能够得到众多的声援对我们确实是很重要的,谨希望以后有机会有机会回报大家。
      • 好。为这份坚持喝采
      • 恭喜恭喜
      • 好,终于有了一个不错的结果。
      • 真是太棒了!!!
      • Good job, tulip!
      • Wish more our Chinsee folks know how to protect ourselves. and enjoy life here more! :-)
      • 不错。
      • 好!
      • Good. Learn quite something from this.
      • 我很感动,向你们致意。
      • good job, buddy!
        • Did you get refund directly from the Esso station as well? If not, it is not the END. You SHOULD keep going until the owner returns the money!!! Your diginity is not just worth as little as $50 !!!!
    • 结果是什么?看不见
    • 如果我是你的话,我会找个律师,索赔至少20000元赔偿,另外还要把那个警察搞的连警察都当不了。对了,991是emergency call,以后别打这个电话